Androgen Estrogens, and The Immune Response

Default Androgens, Estrogens, and The Immune Response
Karl Hoffman

Androgens, Estrogens, and The Immune Response
I posted this reply recently on another board to the question "Do androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system"

It's really not quite correct to say androgens suppress or stimulate the immune system. It is a bit more complicated than that, not surprisingly.

Here is Immunology 101 in a nutshell. The immune system has two "arms of attack": the cell mediated arm and the humoral arm. The cell mediated arm, or cellular immunity, responds to general assaults on the body by sending out immune cells to do things like attack invading organisms, or degrade necrotic tissue, in a non specific manner. By non specific it is meant that the immune cells do not recognize the invader as a specific target with which they are familiar. Inflammation is an example of a cell mediated response. When you get a sliver or strain a muscle the body sends immune cells there to wall off the site, increase blood flow, remove damaged tissue, etc.

Humoral immunity involves B lymphocytes that secrete antibodies that bind to the target and allow immune cells to recognize the target immediately as an invader and launch an attack. When you are vaccinated for something, like smallpox, you are injected with a small inactive piece of the virus. This primes your body to make large numbers of B cell clones that, if ever challenged with smallpox for real, pump out antibodies that mark the virus for destruction by other cells. The big advantage of this system is that it is fast and efficient. The disadvantage is that it is very specific. The cellular response is not as efficient but it works against any invader, not just one for which there already exist primed clonal B cells.

There is an emerging model of how the sex steroids regulate the two arms of the immune system. It is thought that testosterone stimulates the humoral arm and suppresses the cellular arm. This paradigm arose from the study of autoimmune diseases which overwhelmingly plague women more than men. The majority of autoimmune diseases involve a cellular immune system gone wild. Since in men testosterone suppresses cellular immunity, men are much less likely to suffer from these diseases, like rheumatoid arthritis.

So when NFG123 mentioned that androgens are antiinflammatory, this is kind of what it means technically. Some steroids seem to have stronger effects than others. So when people say deca improves joints because it makes you hold water, that is nonsense. It is an antiinflmmatory because it suppresses cell mediated immunity, which controls inflammation. it has nothing to do with water.

Why is deca's reputation as an antiinflammatory better than testosterone's for example? My guess is the minimal aromatization and its progestogenic activity. If you link to the article below and open the graphic, you will see a couple of interesting things.

First, progesterone, like testosterone, stimulates humoral immunity (the TH2 mediated response in the graphic) and suppresses cellular immunity (TH1 response). So progesterone has antiinflammatory action.

Second, estrogen exerts a biphasic effect. At low doses it is proinflammatory, stimulating the TH1 arm of the immune system (cellular immunity) and inflammation.

Deca then works both as an androgen and a progestin to quell inflammation. Testosterone, by virtue of its aromatization to estrogen is an inferior antiinflammatory."lubing the joints" stuff were true, then other steroids that cause more bloating than deca would work better, and they don't seem to. There is just no evidence to support it, The TH1 suppression caused by androgens/progestins makes perfect sense, agrees with the research, and is consistent with the clinical trials of deca in inflammatory disorders.

__________________
something@somewhere

I posted this because it is a finding contrary to current orthodoxy on androgens- it has been my understanding for a while the compromised immune function- this article made me have to reconsider that.

__________________
something@somewhere

Great info aj! thanks

Ahh good post. SOmething worth reading, unlike Jp is a cocksmack or some lame shit spewed on the shoutbox!

Good post Aj. I was curious would this article ring true for ppl with HIV? Meaning it is an Auto Immune deficency. Does that mean one arm will basically be shut down? Also I think the article makes alot of sense. Water in the joints dont cause then not to hurt. Would Winny be just the opposite of Deca in the sense that they also say that winny dries out the joints? I would think maybe it cause inflammation is that correct thinking?

The reason Winny makes your joints hurt is that inhibits the production of synovial fluid, the fluid that lubricates your joints.

Hey, shut up you not shutting up person.


Yeah I said it, what'cha gonna go?

Nothing.

Thats what I thought.

FlapJackVigiana.

__________________
I HATE YOU


First Vet at HCA.com

See here is the difference between you and me. When you stick your balls in your girls mouth it's called a tea bag......When I stick my balls in your girls mouth it's called a potato sack.

I'll do source checks.....make 'em out to cash.



VIP @ some places, VET at some others. Banned at most. Mod here and there. Jerked off on an airplane. I think I may still only be a member somewhere too.

Are you sure about that as far as the winny goes because there is still the myth that deca lubes the joints when that is not truth as it says above^^^^ I was just wondering if that is 100% a fact.